Czarzasty is under counterintelligence protection. Committee discussion on access to classified information

Marshal of the Sejm Włodzimierz Czarzasty has full counterintelligence protection – Marek Biernacki (PSL-TD) told PAP after the meeting of the Sejm Committee for Special Services. Krzysztof Tuduj (Confederation) expected a conversation about Czarzasty's contacts, but there was none.

Biernacki told PAP that he was re-elected as the commission's chairman on Wednesday. Zbigniew Hoffmann (PiS) and Mirosław Suchoń (Centrum) became new deputy chairman.

During the meeting, the committee heard information from the minister coordinator of secret services and the head of the Internal Security Agency on the principles of counterintelligence protection and the procedure for access to classified information by the president, prime minister and the presidiums of the Sejm and Senate.

– We talked about whether four people in the country – the president, the prime minister and the speakers of both chambers – are or are not obliged to undergo the procedure for obtaining access to classified information under the current legal framework, Biernacki told PAP.

He added that these regulations were presented to the committee members. The disadvantages of these solutions were also presented.

– This is about the Information Protection Act, it is about counterintelligence protection of constitutional bodies – he added.

According to him, “there are a number of issues that need to be addressed to clarify this, but this requires a consensus of all groups.”

– Speaking about the specific case of the current Speaker of the Sejm, the Minister Coordinator of Special Services, Tomasz Siemoniak, clearly told us that Mr. Włodzimierz Czarzasty is surrounded by counterintelligence protection. The SOP and the services are working, there is no threat to the state, there is no danger and there are no connections with the Russian services, he emphasized.

When asked about a situation in which these four people in the state would submit documents, undergo a verification procedure and be admitted or not, he said that this would create a situation in which the services would de facto decide on filling these most important positions.

– If the services decided on this and allowed secrets, and it was a condition for holding office, there would be a simple danger: whoever has the services can rule the country – he said. – That's why my opinion is that we need to be careful here – he added.

The issue was also considered whether MPs, members of the committee for secret services, could work or not without being allowed access to top secret secrets.

– On the one hand, it seems that they should have this level of permission, but on the other hand, the opposition also has the right to participate in the commission's work. They may believe that it is not the services – by issuing permits – that should decide who represents a given group in this commission, but the opposition party, he said.

He added that perhaps we should also consider whether, for example, members of the national defense commission should be allowed, or whether all of them should go through the procedure of being allowed to access top secret information, because this commission also operates on sensitive and often secret materials.

The committee also talked about a group of people who come into contact with secrets but do not undergo the procedure for obtaining access. They include: judges.

– They are also not subject to the Act on the Protection of Classified Information, yet they have access to such information, consent to wiretapping, consent to operational work, and also have sensitive material in the files of some cases, because not all materials in proceedings are public. This is also another problem, because judges do not want these procedures. They are independent, they believe that the services will not decide whether they are judges, he reported.

According to Biernacki, the debate shows how difficult and complex this problem is.

– This is one of the elements that should be clearly resolved in the future, because the Act on the Protection of Classified Information, written several years ago, certainly requires amendment and improvement of the system to make it more transparent and clear – he said.

In Biernacki's opinion, such an approach includes, among others: the result of a lack of trust in the secret services on the part of politicians, although not only them, “but also probably an overestimation of the role of the services, considering them as omnipotent.”

In his opinion, there are many elements to consider and the commission will certainly come back to this topic, and the government should try to put these matters in order, because the system that operates “does not fully meet the challenges and reality.”

– Especially when it comes to counterintelligence protection of people. It is there, it is guided and effective, but it is not written down directly. It is true that it results from other regulations, but it can be said that the existing rules were created by practice, not by strictly defined law, and this certainly requires further clarification.

He assured that the committee could support such work. Experts will probably also support the government's work, but this is a long-term process and requires political consent.

– If we do not develop any procedures this year that can be adopted, we will definitely have to wait until the next term. Such things are not done in an election year, but such material can be prepared, he said.

The current vice-chairman of the commission, Krzysztof Tuduj (Confederation), told PAP that the commission generally discussed the issue of access of the most important people in the state to classified information, but he was disappointed because he expected a conversation about Marshal Czarzasty's contacts.

In his opinion, during Wednesday's meeting of the committee on counterintelligence protection of the most important people in the state, “a good, substantive discussion took place” on this topic.

– However, the matter was brought up at the committee meeting due to recent publicly available information about people with whom the current Speaker of the Sejm, Włodzimierz Czarzasty, had more than occasional contact. Neither the coordinator nor the representatives of the commission services provided detailed information on this issue, he said.

– We have names in the public space, we have guesses, and the whole story is not about digging into the marshal's biography, but about having information about the actual situation of institutions and people who are in the Polish public space, strictly speaking, accused of being assets of foreign intelligence services, Tuduj told PAP.

He added that he left the committee without receiving such information. He noted that all difficult matters that came before the committee were always very well explained and discussed during the meetings.

– In this case, the topic is not complete – he said.

Previously, the committee was chaired by Kazimierz Plocke (KO), and the vice-chairmen were Tuduj and Zbigniew Konwiński (KO). In addition to them and the new presidium – Biernacki, Hoffmann and Suchoń – Dariusz Wieczorek (Left Wing) takes part in the work of the seven-person commission. (PAP)

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